Survivor --- spoilers included

[~Lisa]

I can't believe all those spoiler pages were right all the way down to the
end! Am very happy with the winner and feel the 2nd place person didn't
deserve to get that far, but oh well. At least the jury was pretty open and
pointed in their comments to and about her.

Anyone thinking Mark Burnett is kicking Jon in the ass right now for his
comments about the All Star show during the reunion special? I don't think
that was his announcement to make and my beloved Jeff Probst looked like he
was going to kill him.

[TEEVTEE]

Post by ~Lisa
can't believe all those spoiler pages were right all the way down to the

end!<<<

I know you had mentioned a spoiler page saying an outcast made it to the final
two. I don't know why you would read those, why give it away for yourself?

I honestly read NOTHING, in fact I have no idea even where "spoiler pages" are.
There used to be something called survivorsucks.com but I think it is long
gone.

Anyway, even without the help of any spoiler page I PEGGED this one from the
second show on. This was the first Survivor that was just incredibly obvious
to me to pick. Now I admit I am a bit surprised HOW it worked to those final 2
but I called Sandra as the winner from the second show when Jon (I think) said
she would never win. It was just SO CLEAR that this was a clue that I literaly
paused the show (Tivo) and said to my wife "That woman wins it, I bet you
anything she wins it all".

I had Lil pegged at going to the finals BEFORE she was kicked out the first
time. It just seemed like she was an under the radar type. When she was
kicked out I thought I was wrong and then low and behold she is back on and my
preiction was 100% true. hell, early this week I even called the EXACT final
vote... I mean EXACT, person to person, 6 to 1.

Now I say all this not because I think I am particularly good, but because the
show has become that blatently bad. It is just very easy to pick.

Now, If Jon is on the next series, like he seemed to imply, that in and of
itself is a surprise. Rupert was acting very confident, which makes me think
he may have done very well in the all Stars.

Now, haas that thing finished filming already?

[I be Groovy]

I would say that All Star has finished, as both Rupert and Jeff were available
tonight. As for your estimation that this one was "bad" - I would have to
disagree. It had those you loved to love, and those you loved to absolutely
hate - much like Richard Hatch and Rudy. But we can agree to disagree on that
one. I'm just glad Lill didn't win. I live only five minutes away (at the
very least) from the million dollar winner!

Also, no site or article I've read has indicated that Jon is on All Stars (what
was it he said, exactly?) A thought came to me tonight. Any person from this
season that ends up on the All Stars has an advantage. In all likelihood, All
Stars has already been filmed. In all likelihood, none of the other players
have even seen any of those players from Pearl Island on TV, therefore have not
had an advantage of seeing their personalities or possible playing strategies.


Just a thought. (BTW, I thought that the Super Bowl always happened in
January... what's up with the February 1st date? Are they switching things
around like the Academy Awards?)

Erica

Insert favorite quote here.

[~Lisa]

Post by I be Groovy
Also, no site or article I've read has indicated that Jon is on All Stars (what
was it he said, exactly?) A thought came to me tonight. Any person from this
season that ends up on the All Stars has an advantage. In all likelihood, All
Stars has already been filmed. In all likelihood, none of the other players
have even seen any of those players from Pearl Island on TV, therefore have not
had an advantage of seeing their personalities or possible playing strategies.

All Stars has completed filming and they knew enough about the Pearl Islands
that many of them had layers of clothing on in case they were dumped into
the drink without their luggage. I think Rupert was the only one who made it
into the All Stars; no mention of Jon being included that I can find.

Rupert had definitely lost more weight and I thought he looked good last
night. I hope he did well the 2nd time around!

[TEEVTEE]

Post by I be Groovy
As for your estimation that this one was "bad" - I would have to

disagree. It had those you loved to love, and those you loved to absolutely
hate - much like Richard Hatch and Rudy. But we can agree to disagree on that
one. <<<

I am not saying it was "bad" I never said that. I am saying it was dull
because it was so obvious, and that because Burnett changes the rules all the
time it has no longer become about strategy and has become more about luck. I
think that this season had some of the best "characters" wi Rupert and Jon and
so forth and from that point of view I enjoyed it.

<< Also, no site or article I've read has indicated that Jon is on All Stars
(what
was it he said, exactly?) >>

I try not to read any sites about the show so I really don't know. I did read
a list of who was on a month or more back and Jon was NOT listed. However last
night he said "Maybe on Allstars my grandfather will die." It was a joke about
using the dead grandmother strategy. I assumed he was just joking about maybe
a FUTURE version of the show bu then I started to think that maybe he was in
fact on Allstars... I guess he is not.

<< (BTW, I thought that the Super Bowl always happened in
January... what's up with the February 1st date? Are they switching things
around like the Academy Awards?) >>

A couple of years ago it was in Feb. as well. It just has happened like that
because of scheduling and when the weekends fall. I think the first time it
ever happened was a couple years ago. When they added the bye week (I forget
how many years ago they did that) it legnthened the season.

[~Lisa]

Post by TEEVTEE

Post by ~Lisa
can't believe all those spoiler pages were right all the way down to the

end!<<<
I know you had mentioned a spoiler page saying an outcast made it to the final
two. I don't know why you would read those, why give it away for yourself?

Teev, it was all over the news before the show even aired that they'd
stopped taking bets because too many people were betting on Sandra to win
and nobody else was being chosen.

As for the spoiler sites, they provide great summaries of each episode,
which is nice if you happen to miss the show.

[TEEVTEE]

Post by ~Lisa
it was all over the news before the show even aired that they'd

stopped taking bets because too many people were betting on Sandra to win
and nobody else was being chosen.<<<

Really? Pat mentioned that as well.

I honestly had not heard that, maybe they put the quip about Sandra NOT winning
in the second show as a reference to all the betting?

To me it was just so odd that they put that line about her NOT winning in that
I KNEW she would in fact win. I have been pretty good about guessing but this
was the first time I ever nailed both the first and second place person so
early on.

<< As for the spoiler sites, they provide great summaries of each episode,
which is nice if you happen to miss the show. >>

Get a Tivo... you'll be glad you did.

[~Lisa]

Post by TEEVTEE
Get a Tivo... you'll be glad you did.

Is this something that replaces my cable box or is it another piece of
equipment I need to make room for in the entertainment center? I don't think
there is any room left under the television for more stuff!

[TEEVTEE]

Post by ~Lisa
Is this something that replaces my cable box or is it another piece of

equipment I need to make room for in the entertainment center? I don't think
there is any room left under the television for more stuff!

<<<<

Well, it COULD replace your cabel box, but only if you get direct TV
(sattelite) which is really the way to go anyway.

In a nutshell Tivo is a harddrive for your TV. While this may sound odd at
first once you use it you really cannot imagine NOT having it.

What it does is replaces your VCR in recording every day shows. You tell it
(with VERY easy to use menus) to record say Survivor, and then it records ALL
Survivors, even if it switches days or what not. You NEVER miss an episode of
something you care about. But that is just one SMALL part of what it does.

It records everything you watch into a live buffer. What this means is that
you can pause and rewind LIVE TV. So lets say you are watching Survivor, live,
as it airs. Now the phone rings, you simply pause the TV as you would a DVD.
When you are off the phone you hit play and pick up where you left off. Or
lets say you are watching the show and you can't make out what someone said
(something that is a BIG problem with Survivor, atleast for me) well, you can
REWIND live tv and watch it over and over until you make it out. Or, you can
do what I do... lets say Survivor starts at 8:00. I do not even start watching
until about 8:25 or so. As I am watching it I skip past (fast forward) all the
commercials. As I do this I slowly start catching up to the live broadcast so
that by the time it is at the end I am back to live. In essence I watch the
hour long show in 40 minutes by skipping the commercials.

Tivo also provides very in depth on screen menus and TV guides. You can tell
it an acotr or director you like, like say Johnny Depp. It will then record
everything with Depp in it automaticaly. Since it is simply a hard drive you
are not wasting tape or anything. They come in various forms but a typical
Tivo will record 40 - 80 hours of TV, meaning you have LOTS of room to record
all sorts of stuff that you may not otherwise bother with.

It will also start to learn what you like and record similar things on it's own
for you (if you want it to). So it will notice for example that you like
Survivor so it may then record the Real World on it's own. The more you use it
the more it learns what you like.

You can even get one that has a DVD recorder built in. SO lets say you record
something you really like, you can then archive it right to DVD (otherwise you
can go to tape through a VCR...but why would anyone want to use tape anymore?).
You can get ones that hook up to any tv and work with it... they are the size
of a vcr and yes, it is ANOTHER box to deal with... but worth it. Or, you can
get one that had direct TV tuners built in. This is the best. Not only does
it replace your cable cox, so you have no issue there, but it has TWO tuners
built in so you can watch one thing and record another, or even record two
things at once while watching a third program previously recorded on Tivo. The
quality of the recording is super high... in the case of the direct tv version
it is all digital with ZERO quality loss.

So, sorry for the long explaination but Tivo seriously rocks.

[~Lisa]

Post by TEEVTEE
In a nutshell Tivo is a harddrive for your TV. While this may sound odd at
first once you use it you really cannot imagine NOT having it.

Interesting. Am not convinced it is something we need, but appreciate the
info. Would rather replace the damn television like I wanted to because it
is making that stupid noise, but husband says it doesn't bother him (which I
find shocking).

[TEEVTEE]

Post by ~Lisa
Would rather replace the damn television like I wanted to because it

is making that stupid noise, but husband says it doesn't bother him (which I
find shocking).<<<

Well first things first... if your TV is makinga noise then yes, by all means
THAT should come first!

But trust me, Tivo, or some other very similar device will be STANDARD in every
home within 10 years or so. It is better than DVD, better than Plasma sets,
better than HDTV. It is the single biggest change I have ever had in howm why
and when I watch TV. It literaly changes EVERYTHING about TV.

[CoastalWader]

Post by TEEVTEE
But trust me, Tivo, or some other very similar device will be STANDARD in every
home within 10 years or so.

Yep. Sony is making this type of capability a standard feature on most of
their above $900 computers, and Dish network has thier own version now too via
thier reciever.

The cable providers will be coming out with something pretty soon, IMHO.

Kerry
It's all relatively relative

[BC]

Post by CoastalWader
The cable providers will be coming out with something pretty soon, IMHO.

Actually some already have. I have Time Warner cable and about a month ago
I got my DVR. It's $7.95 a month (in central Ohio; it varies by market...
and that's on top of what I was already paying for digital cable), I didn't
have to buy the box, no contract, and the guide service is included in the
monthly fee. It replaced my cable box and because it has two tuners, it
provides picture-in-picture as well.

http://www.twcol.com/customersupport/dvr.asp

It's not a Tivo brand, and the features are not as advanced as Tivo (no
searching for Johnny Depp and no suggestions about what I might like), but
it does the most important Tivo-like features: pause live TV, use an
onscreen guide to pick what to record, and record an entire season with one
click.

It's a lot of bang for the buck. I agree with Teev -- it changes the way
you watch TV. I don't channel surf nearly as much anymore... instead I have
a library of stuff I actually want to see, waiting for me every time I sit
down in front of the tube.

About the only thing it doesn't have is a way to copy my recorded programs
onto my file server for long-term storage... and some Tivos even let you do
that. Or you can buy a media PC with PVR built in.

-- BC

-- BC

[TEEVTEE]

It's not a Tivo brand, and the features are not as advanced as Tivo <<<

Yea, Tivo is BY FAR the most advanced and has the largest installed base by far
as well. However that installed base is still very small... a couple million
for all DVR users max. So there is a good chance that Tivo is simply doing the
leg work for a larger company to step in and take over at some point. I hope
Tivo can stay in the game LONG term because it is a GREAT product with great
service.

Tivo currenlt has units (made by Pionier) that allow you to burn the saved
programs onto DVD. They also have units that can netwrok throughout the house
and talk to each other... sharing programs from room to room and providing long
term storage as well. Tivo also has the smartes software which allows it to
NOT record duplicate shows (it knows it has recorded it already), and even add
time to certain types of programs which may run long (any live event for
example).

A company called replay TV which has been in and out of the DVR market from the
get go is now onto it's THIRD owner. It is a bit player but it has a feature
that allows you to broadband programs to your friends over the net... so you
can share programs from a thousand miles away .

As for computers with this type of function... there are many but I believe
they will all fail for now. People want and expect a separation between home
entertainment and PCs. I think they are great for dorm rooms and the like but
the LAST thing most people want is to have as PC sitting on the TV set.

Tivo's largest problem is educating people on what it REALLy is. I have had
one for almost 4 years and people STILL don't understand it. Once people use
one and figure it out, whether it is Tico or anything like it, there is simply
no going back.

[CoastalWader]

Post by BC
Or you can buy a media PC with PVR built in.

I think thats where I'm going to go.

But thanks for the heads up about the cable thing. I'll check into that for
now!


Kerry
It's all relatively relative

[TEEVTEE]

Post by BC
Or you can buy a media PC with PVR built in.

I think thats where I'm going to go.<<<

What is your logic on this one Kerry?

I mean Tivo units are pretty cheap now... you can even get entire Direct TV
systems for three rooms with Tivo built in and instalation (Tivo in only one
unit) for like $200 or less.

My concern with the multi media computer deal is that you will either be stuck
watching movies on the computer (good for dorm rooms but not much else),
networking your entire house (good, but a pain in the ass if you are only doing
it for this) or hard wiring the computer to the TV which is just half ass.

I mean for the money a dedicated Tivo like system makes more sense in my
opinion, it is just more streamlined.

[CoastalWader]

Post by TEEVTEE
I mean for the money a dedicated Tivo like system makes more sense in my
opinion, it is just more streamlined.

Having no experience in either one, here is my thinking.....

I really would only utilize this in one room and it just so happens to be the
same room the computer is in. Running a cable from the computer to the TV
wouldn't be that big a deal.

The Sony system I looked at was pretty much loaded up to be a "media" PC with
all the bells and whistles I need to start burning my VHS home movies to DVD
and allows for all the whiz bang editing type stuff.

I'm thinking I'd have more control over what was actually happening because I'm
assuming the software would be a little more powerful and a little easier to
use since it's PC based. Now, I know that ultimately, all these things are
essentially PC's.

If your right that I'm going to be stuck watching these on the computer than
yeah, that's not what I'm looking for at all.

How far off am I?

Especially considering my "Kerry takes advantage of all new sign up incentive
deals for cable/satelite TV tour" is coming around to Direct TV I think
sometime early this spring.



Kerry
It's all relatively relative

[TEEVTEE]

Post by CoastalWader
If your right that I'm going to be stuck watching these on the computer than

yeah, that's not what I'm looking for at all.

How far off am I?

Especially considering my "Kerry takes advantage of all new sign up incentive
deals for cable/satelite TV tour" is coming around to Direct TV I think
sometime early this spring.<<<

OK Kerry... there are MANy things you need to consider here.

First of all no, you CAN hook your computer up to a TV and watch movies or
recorded programs from the computer on the TV. HOWEVER, this is half assed for
several reasons:

1) You need to either hard wire or network them together. This may not be a
big deal for you but is in general a poor solution.

2) You now will either have no remote control over the system or MAYBE have to
use a separate remote to control the computer.

3) You are now tying your computer and MASSIVE ammounts of it's hard drive up
to record and play TV.

4) Despite your assumption the media PC software sucks and is no where near as
powerful as a Tivo.

To expand on that last comment... All digital video recorders (DVRs) do the
basic stuff. They all can record TV, pause live TV and so on. However the
in's and outs of the specifics wil vary quite a bit. Sony is trying hard to
develop a good system and I am sure they will. However Tivo has really refined
the system much better than the others. It automaticaly updatessoftware
versions and they have really honed thiers to work well. It's like 5th
generation Tivo versus first generation software from others.

Remember, you are using this thing ALL THE TIME. Literaly every second the TV
is on the DVR is recording and doing it's thing... ALL THE TIME. So that means
never shutting your computer down, having to run cable to the computer and then
back to the TV and so on.

Now, add to the mix that you are thinking of upgrading TV service anyway and it
becomes an absolute NO BRAINER. Wait until you get Direct TV, then get a two
tuner direct TV unit with Tivo built in. This is MASSIVELY better than any
other version of the system, Direct TV rocks, and because Direct TV subsidises
this to get you to buy direct TV it ends up being CHEAPER than any other unit.

This is like comparing a Swiss Army knife (PC) to a dedicated tool (Tivo). The
Swiss Army knife can do many things pretty well. The tool can do ONE thing
REALLY well. You only want a Tivo to do ONE THING so get the dedicated tool,
you will be much better off.

[CoastalWader]

Post by TEEVTEE
This is like comparing a Swiss Army knife (PC) to a dedicated tool (Tivo).
The
Swiss Army knife can do many things pretty well. The tool can do ONE thing
REALLY well. You only want a Tivo to do ONE THING so get the dedicated tool,
you will be much better off.

Is DirectTV's package like Dish's where there isn't a seperate monthly charge
for the added "Tivo" service?

While I'll probably be trying out DirectTV next, and I do agree the satelite
pic is better than cable, I had two big problems with Dish.

One, a decent storm and it was adios... nada. We get lots of storms in the
spring and summer.

The other is the Weather Channel. It has no local weather via satelite and for
a fisherman who makes decisions at the last minute to hop in the car and drive
2 1/2hrs, all the local info the Weather Channel provided will be sorely
missed.

Sounds stupid, but it's much more comprehensive than the local TV stations when
you are talking tides and winds and timing of fronts and what time the
temperature changes will take place during the day and crap like that.


Kerry
It's all relatively relative

[TEEVTEE]

<<
Is DirectTV's package like Dish's where there isn't a seperate monthly charge
for the added "Tivo" service? >>


No, but this is NOT a fair comparison. The DIsh networks digital recorder is
HORRIBLE. It is VERY basic and does not include ANY of the Tivo advanced
features. They are also built very poorly, I know a guy who literaly had to
replace his dish reciever several times a year.

Direct TV with Tivo will require a monthly fee (or a larger one time "lifetime"
fee) to get the advanced Tivo functions. I think it is down to around $4 a
month. It used to be $13 or so but they seem to be running specials. Now a
few points... you CAN use Tivo and direct TV with Tivo WITH OUT paying the
monthly fee. What this provides is something closer to what the DIsh network
system does. You can still pause live TV and all that, and you can still
record with it, but you have to enter the record times manually. If you pay
for the Tivo service it opens up many more features including "season passes"
in which the Tivo will automaticaly record shows all year and so on. In a
nutshell it is ilogical to have a Tivo without the full service because it is
that very service that makes it so much better than the others.
One, a decent storm and it was adios... nada. We get lots of storms in the
spring and summer.<<<


Really?!? I almost NEVER lose signal with Direct TV. I mean MAYBE once a year
under EXTREME conditions. We get plenty of big storms from rain to snow to
wind to ice in Chicago... I rarely have a problem. From time to time in major
storms I may get a brief drop out of like 10 seconds... but almost never just
flat lose it. It could be that DIrect TV is better but it is most likely that
for whatever reason my placement of the dish gets a more clear signal that
yours did.


<< The other is the Weather Channel. It has no local weather via satelite >>

Says who?

The Weather Channel is on #362. They may not have it on DISH but they sure do
have it on Direct TV. My experience is that in general Direct TV is a much
better service than Dish, from channel line up to equipment and customer
service, it is just a better company.

Check this list for the other basic channels they offer:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/see/ChannelLineup.dsp

I also get the Sunday Ticket with Direct TV so I get access to ALL the football
games nationwide which is great. Of course they have multi channel HBO and the
like (like 7 HBO channels or something like that) and music channels and so on.

I don't know what cabel is like down there but CHicago must have the WORST
cabel system in the country. I cannot tell you how much better the Direct TV
is.

[CoastalWader]

In a

Post by TEEVTEE
nutshell it is ilogical to have a Tivo without the full service because it is
that very service that makes it so much better than the others.

Based on your very thorough description here, I agree.. and thanks!

Post by TEEVTEE

I almost NEVER lose signal with Direct TV.>>

It was a recurring theme in this area so it could potentially just be a Dish
specific issue.

Post by TEEVTEE
<< The other is the Weather Channel. It has no local weather via satelite >>
Says who?

I was talking about local weather. Does Direct give you "local on the
8's?" When I had Dish, they couldn't - didn't have the technology to know
where you were so they could cut to a local feed. It was just a straight
satelite feed.

Post by TEEVTEE
I don't know what cabel is like down there but CHicago must have the WORST
cabel system in the country. I cannot tell you how much better the Direct TV
is.

Cable this time around isn't all that bad here. We have free "I control" which
is a thing that lets you view some programs whenever you want.

Very limited on programs, but all of the HBO series are available within a day
of airing so you can start and stop those at will. Because I have enjoyed that
simple aspect of it I know I'd love a full blown Tivo system.

Me and routine schedules have never agreed. I haven't watched a regular
network TV series in yrs.



Kerry
It's all relatively relative

[TEEVTEE]

<< I was talking about local weather. Does Direct give you "local on the
8's?" When I had Dish, they couldn't - didn't have the technology to know
where you were so they could cut to a local feed. It was just a straight
satelite feed. >>


Hmmmm, I see. To be honest Kerry I have no idea. I really do not watch it but
I would guess that it is frankly probably the same as what DISH had. Though I
use the internet to check weather and I would think that may be the best for
you as well.

<<
Cable this time around isn't all that bad here. We have free "I control" which
is a thing that lets you view some programs whenever you want. >>


Your cabel system seems somewhat decent actualy! In the suburbs around here is
is fine but down town it is down right HORRIBLE.

<< Me and routine schedules have never agreed. I haven't watched a regular
network TV series in yrs.
And this is the REAL beauty of Tivo. You no longer care about or worry about
when a show is on. You set up the system, tell it to record whatever shows you
want and then forget about it. If you want to watch TV you look at what you
have and just watch it in whatever order you want whenever you want. You will
find yourself recording stuff you normaly would not bother with, and sometimes
finding some hidden gems. Plus skipping commercials really saves time.

Tivo is not without faults of course. You need to manage which programs are
being recorded and make sure you update your list from time to time. Sometimes
a show like Survivor will be over and so you should go and delete it. Other
times a show like say American Chopper may have a marathon and all of sudden
Tico records freaking 15 shows or something. But in general it works very well
and once you get used to it you literaly become dependant on it. When I am
watching a TV without TV I always find myself trying to pause it or skip
commercials. It is kind of funny how you get so used to it that not having it
seems old fashioned.

Another negative... if your cabel system required a cabel box then there is no
difference, however if you do not use a cabel box suddenly you need to make
more room for the direct TV / Tivo box. With the direct TV cersion of Tivo the
unit has TWO tuners built in so you can record one thing while watching or
recording a second, so that's good.

[CoastalWader]

Post by TEEVTEE
Kerry I have no idea. I really do not watch it but
I would guess that it is frankly probably the same as what DISH had. Though I
use the internet to check weather and I would think that may be the best for
you as well.

The internet is great for where I live, but believe it or not, the coastal
sites are very hit and miss. The Weather Channle via the internet aint all
bad.

Sounds like I'll be switching to Direct pretty soon.

Thanks for all the info! It's appreciated!






Kerry
It's all relatively relative

[TEEVTEE]

Post by CoastalWader
Sounds like I'll be switching to Direct pretty soon.

<<<

I'll be interested in hearing what you think. Though there is some learning
curve everyone I know who has switched (and has Tivo) ends up being VERY happy.

[CoastalWader]

Post by TEEVTEE
Anyway, even without the help of any spoiler page I PEGGED this one from the
second show on.

I just don't remember any of that.

I do remember me picking this one right at the opening credits of the first
show. I paused my Tivo and told my dog, "Now that Chick wins this thing".

I'm on a roll!




Kerry
It's all relatively relative

[PatMc23]

Post by TEEVTEE
Anyway, even without the help of any spoiler page I PEGGED this one from the
second show on.

I do not read spoiler pages, but I was pretty sure it was Sandra when I read
somewhere that they suspended betting on her to win, somewhere, because so much
was put down on her winning. Also, I heard she was in All Stars, and figured
why pick HER unless she won. (Not that I am 100% sure she IS in All Stars, and
I know most of those in All Stars are not winners). So she was no suprise at
all.

I was able to predict how the votes would be read fairly often. Last night I
knew it was 6-1 bfore the vote because of the way they showed one of each, and
I knew they would read it the wa they did. Also knew they would read Lil, Lil,
Jon, Jon, Jon. It IS a little predictable.

On all Stars, some of these people know each other well........ And none of
them will "know" Rupert and Sandra at all. An advantage, plus it is in same
location, Pearl Islands.........I was hoping for an annoucement about it last
night.

[I be Groovy]

They probably got to watch SOME of Pearl Islands (hence the loading on of
clothes) but I don't think it would be enough to really watch how they
strategize... I think it is more important to study the people after they
reach the individual challenges stage - and I can't IMAGINE that they would
have anyone that was voted off before the jury stage.

Erica

Insert favorite quote here.